David Novak 0:04 

Welcome to How leaders lead where every week you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world, I break down the key learnings so that by the end of the episode, you'll have something simple you can apply as you develop into a better leader. That's what this podcast is all about. Well, I'm really excited. The 48th Walker Cup match is happening this weekend at the heralded Seminole Golf Club in Geno Beach, Florida. That's when leading amateur golfers of the US go head to head with the best amateurs from Great Britain and Ireland. And let me tell you something is always fun to watch. So it's a perfect time to talk to John spider Miller, who kept in the US team in 2015. And again in 2017. He's a renowned amateur golfer in his own right, and a successful beer distributor as well. Better yet, he's living proof of just how powerful responsibility is. When we work hard on our own responsibilities and then trust others with theirs. We can accomplish amazing things. This is timeless leadership wisdom, and I just can't wait for you to hear it. So here's my conversation with my good friend, his soon to be yours. The spider Miller

you know, you're actually John Miller, spotter but tell me I always like to get the upbringing of people. How'd you get that? How'd you get that name of spider?

John "Spider" Miller 1:33 

I'm one of 11 children and Catholic family of course. I'm the middle child and my father was a small town business businessman. He had a hardware store partial ownership and a tire store a laundromat and and he added partial ownership and a beer distributorship. So dad was I guess I get it from him. And he worked hard and then having all us kids I apparently I was climbing on the shelves in his hardware store one day when I was four or five years old, and that nickname Spider was given to me and it stuck.

David Novak 2:16 

Did you have a lot of jobs when you're coming up as a kid?

John "Spider" Miller 2:18 

I did. You know, my dad was partners and number of the ventures with his brother. And he had three boys. So in high school, I got up every morning and mopped the floors in our laundromat, along with my cousin and we each got $1 A day.

David Novak 2:37 

Now tell me spider What did you learn from from jobs like that?

John "Spider" Miller 2:40 

You know, I guess for me, I think the important thing and I tell people that are raising their family if I learned one thing and raising our five children is the importance of work. And I think it's good that that young people have the responsibility to be at a certain place on time and perform a certain task and I always believe there's dignity in work and it does matter what chore what task. There's there's just dignity and and working in. And if I could pass anything on to my kids, it would be that

David Novak 3:16 

you know, that's Did you have any mentors that really helped you along the way when you're

John "Spider" Miller 3:21 

Yes, I had always sought the advice of the older people I knew in my life. My dad was one and I had another friend Elliot Phillips who's just across the river here in New Albany. He was a great mentor to me and my business career.

David Novak 3:39 

Where did you get where do you first get your passion for golf?

John "Spider" Miller 3:43 

Well, I think I started playing when I was six years old and I carried through grade school and we were a nine hole course in our little town and and I wasn't big enough to carry the bags for the men because they had those big old leather bags and generally they were stuffed with golf balls and a couple pints of whiskey. But I caddied for the women and I got $1.09 So and and she'd occasionally give me a 10 cent tip. And then I would cut the count the cut cuss words. Her name was Miss Cole. So you ll and and I kept track of her cuss words and she gave another dime for each cuss word to the church.

David Novak 4:31 

So you're learning golf and trying to get at the same time. That's great. How'd you get involved in the beer business?

John "Spider" Miller 4:38 

Well, in the beer business, my dad owned. He was a partial owner and a small distributorship. And they had patched and they had one employee and they had an offer a cash offer for it and I was home from college. And I said pop you keep the books on that, don't you? He said yeah, I have them. So I put poured over the books and I knew the purchase price that they were offered and they were going to accept. And I said, I can give you 25% More, but you have to care me, I you have to carry it on contract. And I think I could finance it over eight years, I can give you 8% interest and I'll amortize the principle. And he said, You have to go talk to the other guy. So I went around and looked up the other guys and, and they agreed, and I made every payment on time. And that's how I got started.

David Novak 5:32 

Now you did that straight out of school.

John "Spider" Miller 5:35 

I've been, I worked. How I got through college is I went for two years. Then I I worked for two years. And then when I went back to school, I worked for the golf pro. But that time I could probably do about anything on a golf course. So he hired me, I could fix the golf carts. And so I worked full time for him and I finished school part time,

David Novak 6:01 

but then you're able to really put that business proposition it got you started it did.

John "Spider" Miller 6:05 

And then And honestly, that's where I was exposed to better players. So we had a good golf team. And I played with all them all. When I could. And I just sort of maintain my passion. I ran the driving range. So you can imagine how I did it. I I didn't sit in the shed. I stood out there and pounded balls. Somebody came and wanted to rent a bike and I followed him right inside, took their money, gave him basket, then follow them right out the door and start hitting balls again.

David Novak 6:37 

Now you started out in your business with paps. What brands do you have now?

John "Spider" Miller 6:42 

Yeah, primarily. I'm Anheuser Busch. I have paps, of course, and we have Heineken. And we have Constellation Brands, which which are the modellen and corona brands. That's a number of the crafts and

David Novak 6:58 

effect. Basically, you're a franchisor and and you bottle the beer and then sell it in that particular

John "Spider" Miller 7:05 

area. Yeah, but where we differ from the soda side is that it comes to us from the brewery all packaged? But yeah, essentially, similar distribution scheme. Yeah. And then we sell the license accounts.

David Novak 7:19 

What do you think makes a good franchisor? Like a but you know, what do you expect as an entrepreneur from from Anheuser Busch?

John "Spider" Miller 7:28 

Well, we represent the brand and the community. And that's first and foremost. So if, if in our market, they think of a brand, be it Budweiser or corona, they think of us so we represent that brand. And I think that's very important is how we conduct business, how we carry ourselves, our trucks of politeness of our people, each and every person that touches a customer represents that brand and, and represents all of us, and it's a collective effort. And I think probably that's the most important thing that I am the face of a very big company, and a small area.

David Novak 8:08 

Right? And how would you interact with like an Anheuser Busch?

John "Spider" Miller 8:12 

Well, I'm a little long in the tooth right now, my youngest, my oldest son is running the company. But, you know, to me, I think they're just, they're just like we are we share a common goal, we want to increase our sales, we want to maximize profits and, and I think it's just the same way I treat my customers, I don't do anything different for them, because they hold the stick over me so to speak, but I do own my own business.

David Novak 8:43 

But you know, now you've you've got your family involved, your son basically runs the business. What advice can you give people on how to best operate as a family company?

John "Spider" Miller 8:53 

Well, I think I'm feeling my way through that. But I think it's important that the people who come into the business have worked outside the business. And that's one of the things I learned from some of the older guys that I spoke with who who had family succession is that they, their, their younger family members had experience outside of work just working for them. So they had to answer the bell for someone else who was unrelated. And then after two years, and that was kind of the threshold, I wanted at least two years outside of the family business.

David Novak 9:29 

So you wanted your son to get outside get different experiences and come into the business. Yes, you know, and then you know, you got to deal with your son and he's got to deal with the Father and that's, you know, that's a lot of people say that's a much more difficult relationship and a typical boss subordinate. How do you feel about that?

John "Spider" Miller 9:48 

Well, it it hasn't been difficult for me when I started in the in the business, let's say I was 29 I think 28 or nine and I would go to meetings and the end there would be the father and the sons. And typically the the father would do all the talking and the sides who were my age, and sometimes older than me would listen and, and I used to think to myself, you know, when my time comes, I'm not going to be the guy in the room espousing what I believe I'm gonna let I'm gonna let my if it's my kids, or if it's an unrelated party, I'm going to let them run the show. I'm going to, I'm not going to be in there, doing all the yapping for the sake of just doing it. So I've done that Joe has complete control. And I'm, I'm in there to support him. I tell him Joe, I'm here to support you in any manner I can you tell me what how I can add the most value to our organization? And what what form of support do you want from me? That's

David Novak 10:56 

great. So you've really turned the reins, I haven't take direction for him in terms of what he needs. That's a sign of oil. It's a sign of great leadership. What do you look for spider when you hire people?

John "Spider" Miller 11:08 

I guess I'm I'm driven a little bit the way I view golf, I do it by personality, I always say that I can teach you to do the job. But the difficult part is if you don't have that desire, that passion and the basic components, it's difficult. I can't change the way you think. So I try and hire someone who, who has that already innately and then we can train them to do the job. So I believe that and that's where I go back to I think it's important that young people have a job when they're young, I think it trains them for the basics. And when they show that desire to work, that's what I look for

David Novak 11:56 

you know, let's talk about your, your golf career, which has been very celebrated, you're a hell of a golfer, you, you you rent one the mid amateur in 96 and 98, which is you know, just just an amazing accomplishment which allowed you to play in the masters the those two years, you know, as you developed as a golfer, and you end up playing at the Masters, what what was that like when you go from being an amateur now, you're out there with all these pros, what was that like?

John "Spider" Miller 12:30 

Well, I there's an old saying, when when we were kids, if you wanted to seek time, go fast, take out a big mortgage, because the first of the month comes around pretty quick, but I can still remember having one and and I was up. I live in Indiana and it was cold. And the first masters commercial would come on, they would start those about, man maybe February. Maybe March they ran the teasers, you know, a tournament like no other and I remember seeing it and thinking, oh my god, I'm gonna play in that. And I hadn't played at all. But it was great. I had I had a great experience. I was very fortunate to be friends with fuzzy seller, fuzz took me under his wing rang sharp practice rounds and we played with Arnold last where I first met Arnold and got to play with Jack and and Tom Watson guys that you know, I thought a lot of as golfers and so thanks to him. It was it was very easy for me.

David Novak 13:37 

Well, you You did become very good friends with the great late Arnold Palmer. What did you learn from him that you think everybody could really apply his principles in their life?

John "Spider" Miller 13:48 

I think what I learned most from Arnold is that you treat people the same. Arnold treated the people who could not help him in any manner whatsoever. He treated them as well as the people who could help him in you know, the doorman locker room guy the the waitress, the waiter server nowadays, but Arnold was kind and he showed the same that he treated people the same, regardless of who they were. And I thought it was one of the greatest traits she he took his time and when he left you and a meet people for the first time, you always had a feeling that you knew him for a long time. He had that ability to put you at ease and and he didn't. He didn't want patronize, you know Arnold was first one to reach. He was the biggest tipper he was. He was just a special man. Yeah, you know, it's my buddy.

David Novak 14:45 

Yeah, absolutely. And you know, he both also besides golf, which you both love the both love to fly and you hear he was a pilot and you're a pilot. You know what, what made you want to learn to fly and when did you do that?

John "Spider" Miller 14:58 

Well, I've always wanted to flies a kid, my brother and I are both mechanically, I guess you'd call us motor heads when we were young. And he started, he started taking flying lessons. So he calls me and by this time, I've been talking Darren a lot. And he said, Hey, I'm gonna send this guy over an aeroplane and you gotta go up with it. So he came over and, and to me, honestly, it was like a drug, I had to know I had to figure it out. I had, I had to do this, I have to. So I started working at it. Like I did everything I got get up every morning, first lesson, daylight, and they call me the touching go kid, because I knew it was all about landing, there's no sense of worrying about the other part. If you can't land, you can't get it on the ground. You're just flying to the scene of the accident. So I focused on landing. And that was, that was what I do, I go up and then I had an instructor on when it was really windy, and lousy weather, I'd call him I knew the other students would cancel, and then him and I would go up and and do crosswind landings in the worst conditions we could find. Well, it

David Novak 16:13 

takes a lot of attention to detail to be a pilot, did you apply that same kind of attention in detail in your into your business?

John "Spider" Miller 16:20 

I did. Yeah, I think I think what a pilot is, is kind of equal parts of academia. And the other part is just mechanical aptitude, you know, the guy who's some of the best pilots, or guys who could run a bulldozer, or who could run any piece of equipment. And the other. The other side of it is, is you have to know the the airplane, the Enter intricacies, and you have to know the navigational aids and how to do that. And that's the academic part.

David Novak 16:52 

Well, let's get back to Golf a little bit, you know, we can do you were the midam champ could play the Masters twice, and you played on the walker Cup team itself. And then you got the honor and 2015 to become the walker cup captain, just for our listeners tell everybody about the walker cup and how it's organized. And what it really means.

John "Spider" Miller 17:12 

Well, the walker cup is a competition between the players in the United States versus the Great Britain and Ireland team that we call them the GB and I and the competition began in 1921. And formally, and it was the original invitation was extended to players of all countries. But it was the brainchild of George Herbert Walker, whose maternal great grandfather, President Bush 41, and the great grade of President Bush 43. But due to the economic times, and so forth, and so on, only the British only the Brits and the Irish showed up. So it was played formally in 1922, at the National Golf Links, and, and that's who showed up the press depth at the Walker cup because George Herbert Walker had donated the trophy. And, and it's now you go to this point, it was there was a period during the war from 40 to 46, in which it was not played. But now we play every two years by annual competition, and it's between our players, the best 10 players we can find in the United States, versus the best 10 players that they have in Great Britain and Ireland.

David Novak 18:36 

So in 2015, you go to Royal Lytham and England and you actually lost what was it? Like, you know, to be a captain of the team? And how did you cope with that? What was the what were the feelings? And then how did you cope with

John "Spider" Miller 18:52 

it? Well, we came in like always with high expectations and and, and we were beaten soundly. I take my hat off to our competition. That was our guys tried hard, but we were beaten and as is you know, in golf, you know, it's up to you. And I did some things that I learned a lot from the first team that I applied to the second team, which helped us a lot but it wasn't much fun at the end of the day, because you're known as the you're either known as the 2015 Walker Cup team, or the winning 2015 Walker Cup team. And I put that to our team in 2017 is up to them as to how they want to be referred to and fortunately, were referred to as the winning 2017 Walker Cup team.

David Novak 19:48 

What was that feeling like? Spider to get the monkey off your back so to speak as a captain, you lose one and now you know?

John "Spider" Miller 19:56 

Well, I had a great team first of all, and I did learn some things. I actually, believe it or not, I had some good insight from our buddy, our mutual friend Jimmy Dunn, on his thoughts of foursomes play about why why is it that the Brits seem to dominate us and foursomes, which is a alternate shot. And they don't necessarily in singles when we go head to head. And it came down to the only thing that's different is as Americans and we play our own ball, we're not used to having someone back on the tee. With us when when we hit the shot telling us, oh, leave me on this side of the fairway or leave me at 100 yards, you know, those are thoughts you never had. So for this team, I had the guys when when they finished putting the guy was to hit the tee shot, go go to the tee by himself. And the other guy started down the fairway and get ready to hit his second shot. And it worked. We handle it one this, the foursome was played this year.

David Novak 21:03 

What else did you learn from the loss that you're able to translate into victory?

John "Spider" Miller 21:06 

Well, I guess you know, it's no fun to lose. We were disappointed. And but you know what, if you're going to play you're going to experience defeat, no one in golf, especially or in life, always. You have your you know, your ups and downs, your you have your defeats, and I try and be the same. I learned that from the guys that I used to play you. I wanted to be the same person I was when I won as I was when I was beaten.

David Novak 21:38 

You definitely are that. Did you find any difference? Spider in terms of coaching your golfers versus coaching your employees?

John "Spider" Miller 21:48 

That's good question. No, I think I took I took my experience at work. As a team leader, you might say, of our group of our team, and I bested the responsibility in them. And I did that with our golfers. I wasn't an autocratic style i i said this is a team effort. And I want to hear from you. How how, what are your thoughts? How are we going to do this to be the best team we can be when when the flag goes up on Saturday morning. So as far as pairings I had them submit their choices to me one through three. And I matched them up so that they essentially matched themselves. I didn't try and say I know this guy's a long hitter, this guy's a short hitter. And then we talked a lot in our decisions were made collectively. And I do that at work. You know, the the guy that's calling on the customer who sees our customer every day. He's the guy to listen to if he comes back and has a suggestion or wants something, then my role is to support him because he is the closest guy to the, to the sale closest to our customer. And I viewed that same way as our team. They're the guys that are on the court. They're the ones playing. So they you tell me what I can do what we can do as a group to be better. And, and that's how I did.

David Novak 23:23 

What kind of responsibility did you feel just being the captain of the United States team? I mean, being the captain of anything United States must be a lot of pressure.

John "Spider" Miller 23:33 

Well, it was it was a great honor. And we are are generally always expected to win not always, you know, we faced some GB and I teams when when they had Rory and Luke, Donald and so forth where we were that may have been the underdog. But typically, we all expect that we will win. But I guess to me, it was more of an honor and a responsibility. And I tried to fulfill it. I tried to do all the things that were required to me, that the USGA asked me to do, and I tried to do them in the right way. And I tried to see that our players conducted themselves in the right way. And they all did everyone. And I just tried to fulfill my duties as much as I would if I work for you work for anybody else. I would try and fulfill my obligation to be the best I could be as an employee or is Captain

David Novak 24:32 

when you think about leadership itself. You know, what is it you think it's differentiated you as a leader? And what traits do you think leaders have to have?

John "Spider" Miller 24:48 

Well, I think, I think and my case would help me is growing up. In a large family I learned early on to interact with people of all age. is, and my mom was my mother didn't drive a car. So we were on our own, I learned to deal with people. I learned how to, to handle myself and the people who, who who were difficult, but earn to give and take. You know, it was never all about me. It was never all about anyone. And I think a leader has to bring people together and make them all feel a part of the of the team. And I think people really thrive on responsibility. I think it's a greater reward than mine than money. I think responsibility is what most people seek.

David Novak 25:45 

And I know you like learn from leaders. And when you were the captain of Walker's cup, you you brought in leaders to speak to the team. And this year, I know you brought in George Bush and former president, did he have an insight that really kind of fired up your team?

John "Spider" Miller 26:03 

Well, I think when President Bush came, it was he is such a great man. And I didn't quite know what to expect. He comes in, he's very humble. He's upbeat. He's, he's full of energy. He sat down with the guys and he said, Come on, let's talk about anything you want. I mean, he was willing to share anything we wanted to ask him and he talked about as being president, his greatest responsibility was protect the country and to keep us safe. And and and you start thinking about that responsibility. And he he shared some insights with about situations that happened to him and he was fantastic. He was amazing. And and he, he nicknamed one of the one of the players. Braden THORNBERRY calls him olive branch. So I said to Braden, I said, how cool is that to have have a nickname given to you by the President. So it was great. He He loosened people up, he made people feel at ease. And there again, I think, is the quality of a great leader. He he made everyone feel at ease around him. He was he's amazing, man. So I think that really helped. I think that helped put the the entire team at ease when it came to that first tee because i Goodness, say we just spent half a day with the President. That's

David Novak 27:39 

right, that's pretty tall cotton. How have you honed your leadership skills over the years by?

John "Spider" Miller 27:47 

Oh, I guess I've just tried to expand on the things that got me going in the first place. And in business and my business career, I have fought through some price wars, I learned to control my overhead. But I also learned to get a lot out of the people that I work with, and we're in our company. And I don't know that, that I've done anything different now than I did. You know, 20 years ago, when when we weren't as fortunate in the pricing. Atmosphere was much more difficult than it is now. And as far as leadership, I'm a big leader believer in responsibility. I think people love responsibility. So I give them that and I let them control a lot of aspects of their individual job. How have you

David Novak 28:43 

managed just the intersection of being a great amateur golfer where you got to spend a lot of time golfing, running a business where you got to run a business and then you got a beautiful family, beautiful wife, Kathy, five kids, how have you managed that intersection between golf, business and family?

John "Spider" Miller 29:03 

Well, I'll start with the the the best. My partner Kathy was probably the one who allowed me the opportunity to do it because she was there for the kids and did everything and yeah, I missed some ball games. I missed a few things. And I managed my time. Well I was I wouldn't. I never sat down the lunch. Sometimes I would stop at daylight and putt for a half an hour, go to the office, come back. Go to the I go to the golf course and I'd have a grab a sandwich on the way eat it while I was driving, putt for an hour. Go back to the office. Leave there after work and stop the driving range and hit balls so dark. And then I come home and my wife I was happy to see me and the kids were great and, and I missed a lot of time with the kids because it was to, to play at the level I wanted to play was very time consuming. I always say that for golf, that's the best. And the worst thing about it is the best thing is if you have time, it occupies your time. The worst thing is, if you don't have time, it's tough because it takes time to to play at the level you want to.

David Novak 30:32 

Definitely does. You know, what is what is it you think that makes golf such a great sport for for business?

John "Spider" Miller 30:39 

Oh, I would say that every success I had had a tentacle in golf, I think golf is the greatest vehicle certainly has been in my case, for business success, you know, your, if you if you meet people, and whether they're a customer, or in my case, it might be a break executive or whatever. If they play golf, you automatically have a friendship. Now, and sometimes if they don't play at all, then it's going to be a lot more difficult. But if they if they play, and even a customer, if they play, then I can take him play golf and have four to five hours of their time. If I go in their office, I'm like you could get five or 10 minutes. So on the sales side, Golf is a fantastic tool for selling and, and relationship wise you meet the best people. And I don't know of anyone who's ever gotten in trouble on the golf course. And that's a great place for kids as well.

David Novak 31:47 

Great, great. Your spider one of the most humble guys I've ever known, in spite of the fact that you've you've done so much and accomplished so much in your life. Do you work at being humble?

John "Spider" Miller 31:58 

I have nothing to crow about, quite frankly, so easy. Again. Yeah, if I weren't humble, I'd be lying. Because there's nothing to crow about. I'm lucky, I've got you know, I've got five great kids and six grandkids, and you know how special the grandkids are. So I tell Kathy, my wife, our challenge is to be around to see how it all turns out. So we keep plugging away.

David Novak 32:31 

When you look, you know, it's your life and business just, you know, what do you see as the unfinished business now you have in your life,

John "Spider" Miller 32:39 

you know, I want to, I guess my role now is to be the best granddad that I can be, and to if I can provide any support to our grandchildren and our adult children. And then any manner that it's to help people like you're doing with Folds of Honor, David, the things you do, I think that's a continuation of what all of us should do is we, you know, come to the end of our obligations, our daily obligations of work and, and to try and always contribute. I'm not going to sit on the couch, and you know, I'm up. I leave the house every morning. Sometimes I don't know where I go, but I just I just get up and I go to work.

David Novak 33:27 

Spider, you know, it's just, you know, you say you want to be a great grandfather now. You know, kids, you know how to love people. And you're a great friend. And you know, anybody that knows you and knows you well loves you. And I appreciate very much you've been on this show.

John "Spider" Miller 33:43 

Thanks, David. Well, you're the best and even when they are an example of what golf does for you, I know you and I know your wife through golf. Isn't that great? It's a great thing in the world.

David Novak 33:55 

It's great. So let's go play. Go. Thanks.

Well, it's always fun to have a great conversation with a great friend. So anytime I get to spend with spider is always special for me. From his early days mopping the floors at the laundromat, spider has understood the power of hard work and responsibility. There's dignity and doing your job well no matter what the job is. And as a successful business leader and team captain, he trusts his own teams with that same level of responsibility. He sees himself as a servant and supporter for the great work his team does. That's the sign of a truly great leader. And it's an incredible opportunity for you to learn. So this week is part of your weekly personal development plan. Ask yourself, what are three ways you can give more responsibility to your team? Instead of doing the work yourself? Where can you all offer support and service as your team goes out and gets the job done. Now, this isn't always easy, but let me tell you something. It's how you build strong teams and accomplish great things together. So do you want to know how leaders lead? What we learned today is the great leaders trust others with responsibility? Thanks again for tuning in to another episode of how leaders lead where every Thursday you get to listen and while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world, I make it a point to give you something simple on each episode that you can apply to your business so that you will become the best leader that you can be